Wednesday, October 24, 2007


Now that I actually have more than two readers, I will ask you guys two questions:

  1. What do you guys define as Zionism?

Do you view it as merely the claim the “Jews have the right to independence in Israel”, or do you view it as an ideology that mandates a given kind of state in Israel? For example, Ben-Gurion's 'classical Zionism' mandates a socialist state of sorts.

  1. Do you believe it is the moral duty of all Jews qua Jews to support Zionism as you have defined it in 1?

  2. Do you see yourself as a Zionist?

My own answers are as follows:

1. I believe Zionism is seen, by and large [especially by a large proportion of Israelis] as a mandate for a particular kind of state, one which backs large 'social equality' programs and is, by and large, defined by Ben-Gurion's legacy. I oppose this sort of Zionism.

This said, I support Israel's existence and I support Zionism as the simple contention that the Jews have the right to self-determination. Six million Jews live in Israel, and they have the right to be independent just like anybody else.

2. I don't see it as anybody's moral duty to support Zionism o any other ideology, no matter how benign. This said, a large sub-group of people use 'anti-Zionism' as a way to camouflage their hatred of Jews in general, or their hatred of America who supports Israel. Noam Chomsky is an instructive case.

3. I am inasmuch a Zionist as I believe in Israel's right to exist. I am not a Zionist in the mold of Ben-Gurion OR Menachem Begin. Further I am a member of the Free State Project .


Blogger Red Tulips said...

Begin and Likud are free market Zionists, so I am not sure why you would lump Begin in with Labor Zionism.

For the record, I too believe in free markets and Zionism. I think the socialist aspects of Israel's foundations continue to haunt it to this day.

5:00 PM  
Blogger Allanea said...

I did not "lump them in". I disagree with Begin's zionism for being, first of all, insufficiently free-market, and further for supporting the conquest of territories which do not have a Jewish majority. I also note that Likud does not support the expansion of individual liberties except for where they feel it will advance the free market. This said I will likely vote for them in the next elections. I actually supported Feiglin in the primaries.

5:23 PM  
Blogger Renee said...

A zionist, in the definition I was taught here in the USA, is a political/social form of racism of sorts - such as a political body of Jewish folks in Israel not allowing anybody of non-Jewish/Israel background to live in Israel (but I know that not to be the case.) It's also tagged to mean something about Jewish/Israeli supremacy.

When you say you are a member of the free state project, do you mean the one in New Hampshire, USA?

Also, not sure what happened with gmail the other day, it just cut us off.

1:06 AM  
Blogger Red Tulips said...


With all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about.

1. Jews are not a "race," and so even if Zionism meant a Jew only state, which it does not, that is not "racist."

2. Where the hell were you taught in the US, that you were taught that Zionism means a Jew only state, to the exclusion of everyone else???? This is so far out of the mainstream, the mind boggles.

4:08 PM  
Blogger Renee said...

I'd added that I now knew it not to be the case - I'm just telling you what was taught, how the word is defined by some here in the States, what people think 'zionism' is - if you search the term on the web, you'll find those kinds of definitions for it on all kinds of forums. People don't much use the term correctly - kind of like the word 'agnostic', which some people think means 'atheist.'

I mighta worded that post wrong - I didn't mean to imply that I personally thought of Jewish people as a race. Apologies.

10:00 PM  
Blogger Allanea said...

To be fair, the Law of Return does mandate it that only Jews are granted citizenship - and people who are children of citizens, like Israeli Arabs. Red Tulips, not being Jewish, has zero chances of legally immigrating here. :D

12:11 PM  
Blogger Red Tulips said...


Red Tulips, not being Jewish, has zero chances of legally immigrating here. :D

Why would you assume I am not Jewish?

5:23 PM  
Blogger Lidiya said...

I assume people are not Jewish unless I'm told otherwise. It's statistically the right thing to do.

7:47 PM  

Post a Comment

<< Home